John Macgregor's second post
to the ex-premie forum,
entitled "The Second Coming".


1. 'In early July I spoke in five cities around Korea. There, I declared that my wife, WFWP President Hak Ja Han Moon, and I are the True Parents of all humanity. I declared that we are the Savior, the Lord of the Second Advent, the Messiah.'

Rev. Moon
Unification News August 24, 1992

2. 'Sri Sai Baba lived, acted and behaved as only a 'God descended on Earth' can.'

Website of the late Sai Baba of Shirdi

3. 'Leland told me, 'Swami's job isn't to make you happy, it's to liberate you.' In his case, that meant giving up his career as a motivational speaker and then his marriage. 'Sai Baba is the most powerful being that ever came to the planet,' he said... Somewhere between 10 million and 50 million people worship Sai Baba as God incarnate.' story on the currently living Sai Baba

4. 'Has there been such a king before? Krishna was not such a king. Rama was not such a king. There were lesser powers in Ram, there were lesser powers in Krishna, but I have come to the world with full powers.'

Maharaji (Peace Bomb)

5. Doctor (approaching bed of mental patient): Good morning - what's your name?

Patient: Napoleon.

Doctor: I see... And who told you you were Napoleon?

Patient: God told me.

Voice from next bed: I did not!

Dear Ex-folk - and premies,

There were quite a few posts so far in response to my first one (I gave up counting after 200), so it may be hard to respond to everyone individually, unless I hire secretarial staff. Therefore I'll just say general things, and respond to some popular themes. If I've dodged a specific question you asked, it's probably because I don't know the answer - tho you can try me again if you think it's important.

Most responses were very positive - thanks. I feel a little safer here now, and am inching toward posting under my real name. But I'll do this in my own time - so no pressure please. Try to remember what it's like in those first fragile, difficult months. The fragility is compounded when you send off a post like my last one, by 200+ posters wanting more information - as well as premie critics saying either I don't exist or I made it all up. On top of that, the Pam post was circulated quite widely from exes to premies, then from premies to other premies - with the result that there was an EV campaign to unearth Pam. This resulted in quite a few waverers and recent exiters being hassled by EV - including myself.

On top of that, many of those whom I could formerly talk to about problems of this magnitude are avoiding me. And the entire intellectual framework I would have had for dealing with it is gone. So be kind, and be patient.

Additionally, whilst one's rational mind has finally realized that Maharaji has blown it (seriously and forever), one's nervous system still has some catching up to do: so doubts and fears surface regularly. It's not an easy time.

I say this not merely to evoke pity for myself (!), but to warn premie readers of what lies ahead for them, when the dissolution of Maharaji's Western empire gathers steam over the next year or two. The transition out of cloud cuckoo land is not a comfortable one: be ready for some serious intensity. But also be aware that there is a large global community of (IMO) helpful, insightful people who will do anything they can to help you.

For all the raucousness of the forum, the ex-premie community is everything the premie community should have been, but signally failed to be: egalitarian, compassionate, irreverent, mutually supportive. The ex-premie community also embraces the free flow of information. After the years of EV's information-suppression, in-group secrets and language-distortion, this feels to me like a borderline spiritual experience.

I might add, for the benefit of exes, that the next year or so will (IMO) be one which taxes us as never before. The trickle of defectors (i.e. people needing an awful lot of help) is likely to grow into a torrent.

Anyway... As for the claim of fabricating or embellishing my information, I guess this is reasonable speculation: after all, I didn't give the names of the people from whom the information derives. (They/we didn't want this.)

For all that, I think a lot of my information can be checked for accuracy.

For instance, there may be someone on this forum who could ask Glen whether he wrote the confidential 'Jagdeo' memorandum to Deepak when I said he did. (Less than half a dozen people in EV saw this memo: it was not exactly plastered across First Class.)

Someone else may know a person who is or was in the Personal/Executive Area, who could verify whether M's staff are trained to lie to Marolyn about Monica. Numerous staff have been trained in this: it has been institutionalized for some years. I can't believe we can't find at least one person to confirm it here.

Someone else may have been to the IOC in Delhi in the late 1990s, and seen Jagdeo there. (For the record, we exchanged a few words, then he picked up the phone on the windowsill of the small IOC office, and began making a call.)

An so on. Those doing the checking could then report back to the forum.

Obviously not everything could be corroborated - premies, even exes, may not talk about everything - but perhaps enough to form a 'pattern of credibility' (Jim no doubt can give us the correct legal phrase), and thus satisfy the critics.

There are people lurking on this forum already, BTW, who (collectively) could verify nearly everything in these posts. So far they don't feel this is a safe place for them. I hope that will change.

There's also the small matter of EV's Pam-hunt of recent weeks. Quite a few premies who haven't been heard from for a while, among others, have been called up by EV organizers and instructors in various parts of the US and Australia, in a quest for Pam. If the post was a series of fictions, or mere embellishments of known facts, why all the fuss?

For the record:

The information in my posts derives from my own experience, the experiences of exes whom I know well, and the experiences of premies who are still in the fold. I am a real person. I am not a regular poster here. I am not a fiction created by a regular poster here. I am not an amalgam of several people. I have told very few people of my identity, and none of them has told anyone else - let alone told a premie. (Though there have been several Pam 'confirmations' implicating the wrong person.)

I did not get any information whatever from the forum archives or from recent posts - except perhaps when I referred in passing to an accepted fact, e.g. that Jagdeo molested children.

Everything I said is true. Well, I did get a date wrong. (See a forthcoming post.) And the crucial, all-important arti trays were a bit of poetic license. (In reality I don't know whether there were arti trays at Amaroo in April - but I'm happy to accept that there were not, from those who noticed.)

I was an EV organizer for nearly three decades, and, as I said, an occasional PAM. I have worked for some years in Maharaji's residences.

I don't know how to prove all this to anyone's satisfaction. Maybe some detail will help - a few reminiscences from my decades of premiedom:

- Marolyn was M's special guest in a private room at the Astrodome (before anyone knew they were an item).

- The English and American security teams were brawling - especially over the walkie-talkie allocation - at Millennium.

- Bal Bhagwan Ji (Vishnu and Jesus in one) said 'Isn't it?' after every second sentence.

- Raja Ji (once Brahma, and also King of the World) gives vent to a maniacal, feminine, shrieking cackle when M tells him jokes.

- Bhole Ji (Shiva - destroyer of the universe, or at least of an awful lot of good music) was rather mentally slow, and was (last I heard) on Bal Bhagwan Ji's team.

- Mata Ji (Holy Mother of the Universe - or was it God? Or all the gods? I forget.) had a bad flatulence problem.

(This, BTW, seemed to bother just about everyone except Mata Ji. Mata Ji's problem is possibly the reason M is so uninhibited in talking about flatulence today.)

These days, Mata Ji is believed to be hosting banquets for departed Third World dictators, and has her eye on the Virgin Mary's job as Queen of Heaven.

Sorry - I'm off the track...

I could add that M loves his stereo more than most pieces of technology he owns; that he did private showings of a video of his former Malibu residence being demolished, for PAMs and residence staff in various cities he visited; that he eats large amounts of red meat, and particularly enjoys it barbequed; that he sometimes takes two years to finish a painting; that he used to tell his minders filthy jokes between techniques during Knowledge sessions; that he 'gave darshan' to a number of women I know, one-to-one, at his residences over the years (which now makes me wonder if he was checking them out - though the ones I know are brunettes); that residence staff labor to place cups, plates, ashtrays, etc as close as possible to where he will be sitting/standing/passing, to save him the slightest physical effort, as we believed he was permanently exhausted from his massive task of bringing peace to the world; that the 1997 Aussie newspaper article which someone recently posted here caused M's non-premie co-pilot to learn who his boss 'Prem' was for the first time - which angered 'Prem' vastly (co-pilots have flown with M for long periods of time without knowing who he is); that he got premies onto a cherrypicker to spraypaint blackened trees green after the LA fires in 1977; that massive care is taken to screen out insects from his residences as he doesn't like insects, and is particularly scared of spiders, all of which must be killed before he shows up somewhere; that after a Delhi Holi in the early 1980s (80? 81? 82?), hashish prasad was handed out to all and sundry, with the result that the whole ashram, including mahatmas, slept or wandered around like zombies for 3 days, and one particularly 'religious' westerner freaked out and left Knowledge; that M eats chillis raw 4 at a time, and believes they have euphoric qualities; that at least one recent member of M's personal staff, who has seen some appalling behavior by M, has in her head 'another Maharaji, whom I don't want to know about', whom she separates mentally and emotionally from the 'real Maharaji' - which is about as good as dissociative thinking gets, I guess; and that many PAMs work this same dynamic by saying, 'I love Maharaji, but I don't like Prem Pal Singh Rawat at all'; that there are regular stresses, feuds and fallings-out between various members of M's over-worked, under-rested and under-rewarded residence/executive/traveling staff; that M sometimes lets off steam by blasting away at rabbits with his rifle; that M's residences and stopovers are always stocked with serious alcohol in advance of his arrival; that EV's latest corporate mantra is 'targeted outcomes'; that, despite his temper tantrums on the ground, M is actually very calm and unflustered when traveling (basically he loves flying and has excellent crew); that plane staff are sworn to secrecy about goings-on on the plane by M personally; and that M's relationship with Monica has for many years been a source of considerable tension between Wadi and her father.

What else? The versatile Bobby Hendry sometimes has organized the dining for an entire program (several thousand people) as well as chopping up and cooking M's dinner - and is also the source of M's tractor joke; when leaving foreign ports, M's plane staff tend to stay in separate hotels from him, and to get up as early as 4 in the morning to buy his food for the next leg; the premie lawyer, Virgil, spent several years in India sorting out the post-Holy Family legal fallout; Reggie Brown (M's security chief) has returned to the army - indeed he's a three-star general - and left his office in the Pentagon on Sept 11 five minutes before the terrorist plane went through it; and - my shocking piece de resistance - Sampuranand, on whose back M used to ride as a kid, has a soft spot for the cognac.

The situation with M's 'premie-mail' is also worth a mention. As you'd know, thousands of premies worldwide write to M each year. (You were probably one of them.)

Mostly this mail does not reach Maharaji - nor has it for many years. Generally it is destroyed unread.

The mechanics are simple: at an event, a premie known to have access to PAMs will be given a bundle of mail to be forwarded to M. The PAM on the spot (e.g. Craig Weeding), knowing the routine, and after verifying that the bundle does not contain a letter from someone important, will say, 'Throw it in the trash.' It will all then be thrown in the trash.

Occasionally some letters will be salvaged so M can quote from them at an event - but these are the exceptions.

When M leaves a city where he has a Residence, his mail is left, unopened, in the Residence. It, too, is thrown in the trash.

It might be worth mentioning this one to your premie friends when the next divine visit is imminent. It could save them shopping a whole afternoon for the perfect card for the perfect master, and an evening's work distilling their deepest feelings onto paper. (It still happens, believe me: I've delivered M's mail myself.)

Would any of the objectors to my last post care to check this out with their PAM friends and report back to the forum?

On the subject of my last post, I haven't seen any substantial factual criticism to date. (I don't count 'She made it all up.') If premies - or for that matter exes or fence-sitters - would care to present concrete evidence counter to things I have claimed to be true, I would be happy to address it.

That way, we can get final versions of these posts onto EPO (minus the Goebels-like lie about the arti trays of course) as a permanent written record - and feel ethical about it. I certainly like the idea of memorializing our experiences and journeys on EPO in this way.

And in light of EPO, it's ironic that one of the long-standing mottos of Elan Vital's ultra-cautious global PR team is:

'Anything in print is permanent.'

Now that will be too.

I know some of my premie friends will be hurt by this post. Criticising the Master is the final no-go area. This was a bit of programming installed in our Knowledge sessions, and it's been well-reinforced ever since. All premies have it - and in my opinion it goes deeper than anything else. I've seen whole rooms fall silent when someone even hinted that M had made an error: there was literally nowhere to go with such a topic.

Yet, in assessing my posts, I would simply ask premie readers to use truth as the criterion - as they would have before Knowledge, and as they still do when evaluating non-Maharaji aspects of their lives. In other words, to judge what I have written simply on the grounds of whether it is factual or not. If I have lied, or manufactured information, I deserve all the censure that will undoubtedly come my way. If I have told the truth, where, then, should the criticism be directed?

I have been hanging out with a lot of premies lately. None of them has ever heard of Jagdeo, or the Delhi bicyclist, or the blondes. For me, this has been a real insight into the information restrictions within Maharaji's world. These things are all landmarks in Maharaji's career. Imagine how well-known they would be if Maharaji were a politician or church leader. This wall of silence is more often than not a result of self-censorship. It's true that M and EV aren't exactly free with information, or particularly truthful. But the information is out there, and the real problem is that most premies don't want it. In my opinion, the assumption of Maharaji's divinity and infallibility lies behind this.

Anyone who has done Maharaji's trainings will affirm that no criticism of the Master is possible. No argument with him is countenanced. No correction or amendment of his point of view is allowed. These things are not allowed by him; they're not allowed by the trainers and PAMs; and - most significantly - premies do not allow themselves to go down these roads either.

(To underline all the above: in 28 years I only once saw a premie object to something Maharaji said. This was at the Sept '99 training, when M told 80 of us that there 'is a sickness in this room, and we have to cut it out'. A very brave premie respectfully replied that if there was a sickness in the room, then Maharaji must be a part of it too. That premie was verbally cut to ribbons by Maharaji who, after a protracted screaming fit, stormed out of the room. The premie was taken on a long walk by a PAM, and set straight.)

Surely the premise behind this extraordinary behavior can only be that Maharaji is infallible. Otherwise, premies would insist on the right to dialog with Maharaji meaningfully (as we do with our political leaders, or even leaders within EV at times), and to criticise him and amend his edicts, where appropriate.

There has never been any such right in Maharaji's world. This is a very interesting revelation, isn't it? It's a secular, democratic age, where free speech is enshrined in our national constitutions. We're adults with free will - who may exercise excellent, objective judgment in all other fields. Yet we believed that the man we allowed to be our Master could never be criticised - presumably because he could never be mistaken.

The recognition of the fundamental wrongness of this idea - logical wrongness, psychological wrongness, organisational wrongness, ethical wrongness - is the deepest of rivers for a premie to cross.

It's doubly hard because to do so would mean acknowledging that what binds one to Maharaji much of the time is not love but fear.

I saw this fear close-up - sweating, apprehensive faces, shaking bodies, trembling voices, cringing body language - at the training I attended. It's very real. It's also almost impossible to acknowledge - because we have, for decades, been the first victims of our own propaganda:

Knowledge is freedom, the Master is compassion (.....and I am Marie of Romania).

Discovering Maharaji's real nature is definitely a tricky business. Of course, given the basic facts, it would take a fair-minded outsider about thirty seconds. But we are not outsiders: we have been extensively re-wired at the pre-logical level of our psyches.

Thus: are Maharaji's personal excesses a reflection of his corruption - or a game by which premies must on no account be distracted? Is his utter certainty about his mission the result of being raised since infancy to fulfill the role of God incarnate - or of a genuinely special role in the world? Is his recurrent anger the result of poorly reconciled internal energies, or even excessive drinking - or of his compassionate desire to drive home to us important lessons as fast and as well as he can? Is his lying about (for example) his role in promulgating the 1970s 'Indian concepts' the result of pride, unscrupulousness and self-deception - or of being beyond normal human morality by virtue of his special role? Is his sexual use of female devotees an abuse of his extraordinary psychological power over them - or does it derive from an overarching understanding of their psyches, and concern for their well-being, which others like ourselves simply can't grasp?

Unbelievably for those of us who have come back through the looking glass, these are questions which all premies have great difficulty in answering. Some of these people have astronomical IQs.

For some time I had difficulty answering them myself: paradigms as vast as M and K are not overthrown overnight, especially when they have been implanted in one's formative years. So I put them in the too-hard basket until I could gain some perspective.

In the interim, I examined the circumstantial evidence, which is less ambiguous. I looked long and hard at the chronic dysfunction of EV - which goes back three decades. I looked at the lack of progress - internal and external - in the lives of most premies. I looked at the 99% of premie marriages which had failed. I looked at the absence of spontaneity at large events. I looked at the caliber of the people Maharaji has chosen to surround himself with.

Finally I asked myself: Can a good tree bear rotten fruit?

Having neared the end of this 'anonymous' post, and the long inner process of writing it (it's taken weeks, on and off), I've just been made aware that the CAC websites are back with us.

The timing is fortuitous. Throughout this year, I'd always determined that I would not post here. But when I heard about the first CAC website (after returning from a ten-week working trip to the US in August) I decided immediately that it was time to nail my colours to the mast, and posted here under my own name. (This was a brief, conciliatory post a few weeks ago.) I don't believe one should ever cave in to CAC tactics: bullying and misinformation have been rewarded for too long in M's organisation.

Similarly, I was intending to call it a day with this post. But so far as I'm concerned, the rebirth of the CAC sites are a reason to stand up and be counted. I'm now planning four further posts:

Maharaji's trainings - which are pivotal to an understanding of his modern approach - are in need of examination. I also have a little further info on Jagdeo, and other (unnamed) sexual pests. Thirdly, I'll provide some further elucidation of how money has been raised and processed within EV.

And finally, very few people realise how serious is EV's present decline. In the next year, the organisation is to be wound back throughout the West. Indeed it will disappear organisationally (and probably even legally) in many countries over the next 12 months. Maharaji is currently scratching his head over what might fill the void. No ideas have been forthcoming. Propagation has halted. September 11, furthermore, has caused massive financial problems, as major donors jump ship and pull out loans. In my opinion, the writing is on the wall for the decline and fall of Maharaji's mission in the West, and the time-frame may be quite a bit shorter than we had expected. So I'll pen a fourth post on that.

It now seems like a good idea to reveal my identity as well. I'm a little too lazy to go back and re-write the entire post, so I'll just tack it on here.

Doing this should put to bed doubts about 'Pam's' authenticity, and will moreover allow me to interact with my premie friends more honestly.

(Several premies and others have asked me if I'm Pam. I apologise for lying - and in some cases for spinning a bit of disinformation. On the other hand, you did insist on putting me on the spot before I was ready to come out.)

I should add that there were small bits of disinformation in my first post - for example US spelling, the odd spelling mistake, and my claim to use a PC, when in fact I use Macs. This was to protect my identity in the course of the inevitable Pam-hunt. None of these bits of disinformation affect the truth of what I said about M, K and EV. The only one that was a bit borderline was my claim to have been to several trainings. In fact I have been to one (Sept 99) - however making this clear would have all but given away my identity, as only two people from that training have so far left Knowledge. In addition to that training, I worked at several others as a staff member, and have interviewed numerous premies and exes who have been to others still. I will use all this information to write my next post, on the trainings.

On other occasions, I actually downplayed my information to protect my identity. For example Scott Ritter himself, and not an intermediary, approached me, early this year, about his brief to employ 'radical new approaches' to countering EPO.)

My name is John Macgregor. My DOB is 11/11/51. My home address, for writs and cyberstalking purposes, is 36 Peter Street, South Golden Beach, NSW 2483 Australia. (Please be careful with explosives, anthrax, etc, as I often have premies down from Amaroo as my houseguests.) My vocation is journalist: I write for newspapers in Australia and the US. My phone and fax number is 61 2 6680 5509. My email address is I'm not sure if anyone wants my hat size or inside leg measurement, but these can be obtained on application.

I am already well-known to the FBI, as I interview them on a regular basis in the course of my work in US politics - so I would request that cyberstalkers cite them the above details carefully, for identification purposes. The Miami Field Office knows me best, however Special Agent Steve Berry and SA Michael Bonner (among many others) in the Hoover Building will also be able to assist. Additionally, Attorney General Ashcroft (ultimate boss of the FBI) is familiar with my work on FBI matters, as is Rep. Dan Burton - Chairman of the US House of Representatives Committee on Government Reform, which has ultimate law enforcement oversight responsibility. My friend James C Wilson, the House Committee's Chief Counsel, may also be a good person for cyberstalkers to approach, as he and I have co-operated extensively on matters relating to the Bureau, and he knows my background pretty well already. (Indeed the House Committee's most recent hearings on FBI-related matters - which I recently attended in Washington - employed extensive evidence that had been obtained by yours truly.)

Cyberstalkers could send information on me to any one of the above - or, of course, to a person of your own choosing. If it is desired to contact the Australian authorities as well, can I suggest the Australian Federal Police as the first stop? (Maybe Beryl Janz, National Media Office, could point you in the right direction.) Or, to cover all federal law enforcement avenues, you could just go straight to the office of the Prime Minister, John Howard, who has final responsibilty for Australian law enforcement matters, and whom I interviewed for four of Australia's major daily papers, late last year, on the subject - happily enough - of law enforcement.

Finally, if the sponsors of CAC and its sister sites care to contact me directly, I can also help you out with your spelling.

Here's a little of my premie background:

I received knowledge at the age of 20, and practised it till just short of my 49th birthday. I first spent time with Maharaji when he was 14: in Sydney on October 6, 1972, I sat in his bedroom and watched him sit on his single bed and repair a reel-to-reel tape recorder, for about an hour. Over his door was a large sign saying 'The Lord of the Universe'. I don't recall him asking anyone to take it down - but no doubt I missed this, as the EV website has made it very clear that he never claimed to be God.

In years subsequent to that I helped organise Australian tours, including the 'Second Coming' tour of the mid-1970s, whose dates changed continually, and for which Maharaji eventually didn't show up. (When Christians asked why all the dates on our placards were different, I quoted them the Gospel of Matthew: 'Thou shalt not say what hour thy Lord doth come.')

I have opened doors for him, rolled out carpets, and set up backstage areas. I spent a week with him in a training in September 1999. I worked at his Residence in Brisbane through most of the 1990s - sometimes living there for weeks at a time, both when he was there and when he wasn't. In a spectacular lapse of judgement, I even tried to crack onto Monica Lewis at the gate one day - possibly my most embarrassing moment since pranaming to Bhole Ji. I also (less often) worked around the original Amaroo residence, or 'Lodge', and his new one at the 'Windmill'.

As for other service: I established DLM in South Australia in January 1973, and was community co-ordinator there for three years; established DLM/EV's national legal structure in 1974 (still in place); worked with Bestway in the early 1990s, getting people to and from the large Amaroo events; at Amaroo '97 I oversaw the five sales shops, and the purchasing warehouse, helped with the registration package, arranged the site-wide electronic purchase system, helped get a recycling system up, and supervised the post-event de-briefing process. Thereafter, I precipitated the Amaroo Mutiny of 1997-98.

Having spent most of the proceeds of the sale of my house ($A50,000 working at Amaroo self-supported, I withdrew from full-time service after the Mutiny - tho more from poverty than disillusionment. The last service I did was to co-manage the travel for the Amaroo fundraisers' conference a year ago - tho my heart had gone out of service to Maharaji by then, and I didn't do much of a job.

'Pam' has sometimes adopted a flippant tone. But underneath this there is a heart cloaked in sadness that all my hopes and dreams in regard to Maharaji and Knowledge - which have been the focus of my adult life - have been broken. The destruction of one's idol is not a pleasant thing. The sadness is very real, and you just have to accept that it will permeate your life for a while.

I don't particularly want be going through this transition. But after the revelations of M's covering up Jagdeo's crimes against children - indeed his continuing to reward Jagdeo with high office - I didn't really have a choice. How could anyone remain in an organisation that sanctifies the rape of children?

The bicyclist and the blondes were the icing on the cake.

The candles which illuminated the cake were my growing understandings about cult psychodynamics, and my growing grasp of projection: how easily we can confer divinity and compassion (to say nothing of authority) on another human being. With all this unravelling at once, the game, quite literally, was up.

I'll write more about all this in the coming posts.

These posts sometimes get emailed to and among premies, so I'll include the URL of the Ex-Premie web site - - so those premies who wish to can safely explore the facts about Maharaji's real life and work, in EPO's excellent archives.

And I'll bury Pam now, and post hereafter in my own name.

As I said, I'll now write four more posts, each on an aspect of Maharaji's work and mission:

1. Mindfuck (Maharaji's trainings)
2. Rape (A little more on Jagdeo)
3. Plunder (Divine finances)
4. Annihilation (Maharaji's fast-declining Western empire)

Best Wishes to all,


the artist formerly known as Pam

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