Chris P -:- To Kelly: Info re KIT training -:- Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 16:14:59 (EST)

__ AJW -:- Thanks Chris. -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:29:49 (EST)

__ jude -:- I didn't know this site existed -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:43:25 (EST)

__ __ Dermot -:- Ttake a sad song and make it better, huh? :) -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 18:39:25 (EST)

__ __ AJW -:- Hey Jude. -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:38:02 (EST)

__ __ Can Someone pleeeeze -:- Delete this troll? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:10:08 (EST)

__ __ __ Do you mean the one -:- who never uses a name when he posts? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:40:54 (EST)

__ __ Jim -:- What about this, Jude? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:48:46 (EST)

__ __ ChrisP -:- Re: I didn't know this site existed -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:38:19 (EST)

__ __ Deborah -:- You're OBVIOUSLY knew -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:20:35 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- David Roupell, you can't stop lying, can you?? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:20:28 (EST)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: David Roupell, you can't stop lying, can you? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:57:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Special ability?? -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:14:42 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Jude, honey -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:01:24 (EST)

__ Brian Smith -:- Psycho Boot camp -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:30:17 (EST)

__ Kelly -:- Wow! thanks Chris P -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:08:33 (EST)

__ Patsy -:- Thanks Crispy - excellent. [nt] -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:56:23 (EST)

__ Francesca :~) -:- **BEST of FORUM*** a must read! -:- Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 17:22:29 (EST)

__ __ Chuck S. -:- Re: **BEST of FORUM*** YES! -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:44:43 (EST)

__ __ Deborah -:- Re: **BEST of FORUM*** a must read! -:- Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 18:29:43 (EST)

__ __ __ ChrisP -:- To Deborah -:- Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 22:34:38 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- ***BEST OF*** to ChrisP... -:- Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:29:56 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Thanks ChrisP [nt] -:- Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 23:15:19 (EST)

Date: Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 16:14:59 (EST)
From: Chris P
Email: None
To: All
Subject: To Kelly: Info re KIT training
Message:

Hi Kelly, I read your post a few days ago and I don't know if you've got your
answers yet re what was the KIT training all about, but I can pass on to you
what I know as well. (I took the training myself last year and that's what
blasted me straight out of the cult real fast and for good.)

(Warning - to anyone who happened to read my earlier posts the beginning of
January, this will be a re-read for you. A friend said I should re-post it
so here it is (and with a bit more 'edge' this time).

You've probably seen MJ's presentation in Atlanta over a year ago to
coordinators and instructors on how to talk about K to newcomers (how
redundant can you get - some of these instructors have been around since
when? early 70's). But everyone in this insulting presentation thought it
was great and started yet another phase of introducing the POSSIBILITY of
Knowledge.

MJ's wishes (as of January 2001) were to have all the communities run by
teams of people rather than single coordinators. Our community coordinator
resigned a year ago. Then came the First Class email announcing the new
national team for Knowledge introduction; then came a visit from the national
coordinator seeking volunteers for our own community's team (Knowledge
Introduction Steering Committee). Each city's committee's main task was to
draw up and implement a Knowledge Introduction Plan. These plans clearly
show this is active recruitment (which, by the way, discredits EV's FAQ
statement that EV is not a cult involved in active recruiting of members) --
each committee picked a yearly goal number of (say 300) people to introduce
to Knowledge.

What a joke. That included inviting the speaker to come speak in our
community, and the second-hand-clothed church ladies have to buy the speaker
the best cold weather gear obtainable. (Hello? He's been invited so many
times we've lost count; and you know he'll never come - he hates the cold;
and our small community has only ever had maybe 1 or 2 new aspirants a year.
Besides, he's rich enough and old enough now to do his own shopping for a
change.)

Our own committee actually started 're-recruiting from within' by sending
letters to all the old premies who had ever lived in and passed on from the
community decades ago to advise them of the 'current resources available
(satellite broadcasts, videos, publications, etc.) by which they can enjoy
the speaker's message'. (First of all, why is it that cult members never
bother to ask people who've left why they left, but still think they're doing
them a favour by 'paving the road from their garage doors straight to the
video hall' (so to speak), as if they've forgotten where to ask should they
want to ask! Du-uh! I guess they'd rather assume the reason for leaving is
they're 'in their mind' or 'derailed off the track somewhere'; therefore
they'll be good samaritans and try to save them by facilitating their getting
reconnected?) What another, typically cultish, joke.

Okay where was I (excuse the meditation side effect). Oh yeah, the KIT.
Well these steering committees hosted the Knowledge Introduction Training in
their respective cities by inviting the main facilitator (instructor from
Washington, DC) and the regional instructor, billeting them and taking care
of all the logistics. A minimum of 20 people was required for the jam-packed
2-day session at a cost of $150 per head. The workshop material/content was
the DVD of MJ's Atlanta session, follow-up group exercises that emphasized
teamwork and actually mocked individual thinking/decision-making or
independent action. Of course there were countless reminders to never forget
who the number one boss is we're doing this for! (Yea right, as if we'd all
forget already again). And then there was the old-school guilty behaviour
conditioning - we were each asked to think about and express weaknesses we've
displayed in the past (unhelpfulness; answering questions poorly, etc.).

There was also a series of filmed 5-min. shorts (yet another Dunrite
Productions video) of different takes of a coffee break conversation with a
pwk telling work friends all about her trip to see the speaker over the
weekend. The only differences in the approx. 6 takes were very minor
variations in the lines she delivered each time. A number of people even
missed the variations - I guess they were mind-numbed :) Of course, it was
the usual politically correct but deceptive spiel in that she wasn't exactly
saying she went to see the Perfect Master over the weekend! The whole series
was quite the stretch.

Then there was the simulator Q&A session where a volunteer would go into a
sideroom with a camera-video feed to the main hall where the rest critically
observed his/her responses to some unknown pretaped questions (some of them
quite challenging) from either (1) a newcomer first-time introduced; (2) an
aspirant trying to get some things cleared up before asking for K; or (3)
person just received K asking why he's not experiencing anything, and other
'mind' stuff. There were 4 pretaped endings (depending on your answers)
varying from 'Thank you, I enjoyed talking with you; you've helped me' to
'What is this shit - you're crazy; I'm out of here'.

I actually volunteered; I was curious to see how I'd do and also wanted to
find out whatever crappy ideas I might still be carrying myself. But
ironically more than that, I was about to discover that the last question
would expose the ancient program gears of a cult I didn't know I was trapped
in. The question was easy; heard it MANY times before:- 'Can I still
practise this meditation and follow my own religion as well?'

I could've caved and hauled up one of MJ's quotes like 'Check others out
first and if still not satisfied, keep me in reserve' or 'Yes, if you like to
mix ice cream with your pasta' (which don't say anything either way, as do a
lot of his answers). But I was deliberately exercising my ability to dig down
deep for the most intelligent, honest and satisfying answer possible. While
I was verbally stumbling through the honest-premie-answer,'Yes, it's
possible, but it would be hypocritical if you did', my mind was SNAPPING (per
Cynthia's book) with 'Not really; this is another religious cult'.

Then the last 'Thank you....' ending was played and I returned to the room
where everybody was supportive and said I did well! But I felt like a subtle
liar in the middle of a deceptive, bullshitting cult whose disguise was
'standing on and living from your own understanding and inner experience'.
This dogma was the very tie that bound me blindfolded inside its walls and
made me refuse to see it as a cult for that very looped reason. Over the
next few days (with the help of EPO) I finally saw past it - it's based on
centuries-old techniques handed down through the generations, not even
exclusively owned by the speaker. (I can just imagine everyone here
thinking 'yea, I figured that years ago :)

Amazing. It took 27 years for that simple little lightbulb to go off -- such
was the deadly disguise, like a wolf in sheep's (no, make that, 'lord's)
clothing.

Then the instructor went on for several minutes with the simplistic
instruction that if there's a question I don't have the answer to, and I
won't always have the answer to everything, then just tell them to watch a
video of MJ talking about it. Of course this was just not good enough for
me. After 27 years, I'm trying to draw from and stand on my own experience
here. Besides, who has the time to search the video library for the
appropriate video?! Du-uh, brilliant. It all smacked too much of being
programmed, like an idiot with a run-home-to-mama button, to sell Knowledge
without looking or sounding like you're selling Knowledge - neither
intelligent OR honest.

I excused myself at the break (both days) saying I had some important things
cooking at home. It was a total waste of my weekend. Actually IMO the
workshop should be illegal - it's a deceptive cult recruitment training
session. But everybody thought it was fantastic and inspiring! Holy
mackerel. When I left the first day, the instructor said 'Okay, but you
gotto' come back tomorrow - we're showing the best part of MJ's Atlanta video
tomorrow morning!'

My thoughts throughout the session was this will be the last training session
I attend; enough of the child's play; and the emphasis on
no-thinking-through-for-yourself was a real turn-off for me.

So Kelly, I hope this answers your questions re what the KIT was all about.
If not, then you'll just have to GO SEE THE ***** VIDEO!

Cheers,

Chris

PS: The KIT was held on our 'Thanksgiving' weekend - HA! (Lord, thank you
for delivering me from the hands of a deceptive cult.)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:29:49 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Chris P
Subject: Thanks Chris.
Message:

Thanks for reposting that Chris. I missed it when it first went up, and it was well worth reading.

I walked over three years ago, so I'm out of touch with the latest cult bullshit.

It seems that the cult is reducing, like tomato sauce. The temperature is rising and something is about to burn. There's more pressure for cash, more pressure to stop folk leaving, and questioning, and desperation to halt the decline they have fallen into.

They are constantly trying to reinvent themselves. It doesn't work, so they try something new. It's a shambles.

They inhabit a room with a turd in the corner. People walk in, sniff, and leave. To stop this happening, they keep repainting the walls, thinking the latest colour will surely turn things around.

But we know the real reason people leave, don't we boys and girls.

Thanks again Chris.

Uncle Anth, going mad in a storm on a cliff.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 14:43:25 (EST)
From: jude
Email: None
To: Chris P
Subject: I didn't know this site existed
Message:

Hi I'm new to this web site, I didn't know such a place existed the disgruntalled Maharaji employers and customers club.
Im not responding directly to anyones message I just thought I would share my own oppinions. And since we are all reasonable people I know that this wont be censored because that would mean this was a cult.

I see this site is asking for donations, you like Maharaji, both of you need donations of money to do your work, thats an interesting similarity.

Im a premi, and I found the website amusing and ugly. Ugly because it displays the very worse of human nature. It reads like a good trash, sensationalist, gossip collumn of disgruntalled employees, rejected lovers, and people who lack even one shred of dignity and self respect, or respect for anyone else. Most of you and this website display the most base aspects of your selves. Have you learned anything from your experiences.

People are people no matter where you go people have equal portions of good and bad. I don't agree with everything Maharaji says but I do trust in my own experience when I practice the techniques. Maharaji has a brilliant comic sense of irony that most of you cant pick up on. Read between the lines. You take him far too literally. Lighten up sounds like your lives are hell with or without him. Ill bet your seething masses of anger, frustration, bitterness, lonelyness. Get a life, find your happiness, if its not Maharaji then go somewhere else, who cares, I dont and no one else does, your free to do as you like. What makes you so special that you think your being targeted by a 'cult'. If I was to start a cult I wouldnt have you lot join.
Yes people with knowledge can be painfully irritating but so are my friends, who don't even know Maharaji exists.

PS Thanks for all the lovely pictures of Maharaji and his words, very nice. Maharaji once said, with much kindness, of this man who was so angy at him he tried to attack him (paraphrase) ' At least he is still thinking about me'

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 18:39:25 (EST)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: Ttake a sad song and make it better, huh? :)
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:38:02 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: Hey Jude.
Message:

Hi Jude,

Your letter seems quite sincere. I remember when I used to think like that.

I have a sincere question to ask you.

What do you believe is the difference between yourself and a Moonie?

Try to be honest, and not say something that's a copout, like, 'I don't know what it's like to be a Moonie so I can't answer' or something.

Maybe the Rev Moon can give you more than your present teacher, so perhaps you should check out the Unification Principle, and the Holy Family.

Or is there a difference between your Master and theirs?

What do you really think about this matter Jude?

Honest Dr Anth, purveyor of medecines to cure all known diseases. Only 10 cents a bottle. (5 cents to you Jude)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:10:08 (EST)
From: Can Someone pleeeeze
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: Delete this troll?
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:40:54 (EST)
From: Do you mean the one
Email: None
To: Can Someone pleeeeze
Subject: who never uses a name when he posts?
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:48:46 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: What about this, Jude?
Message:

In the summer of '73 one of Maharaji's closest 'saints' tried to kill a man who'd throw a shaving cream pie at Maharaji. We'll never know if Maharaji knew that Mahatma Fakiranand was going to smash the guy in the head with a hammer and leave him for dead but we do know that Maharaji had a very 'expressive' conversation with Fakiranand at the ashram after the pie attack but before Fakiranand and another premie met with the prankster pretending to be disgruntled premies. Too bad they were speaking in hindi, huh?

We also know that Maharaji ordered Mike Donner to secrete Fakiranand out of the country just after the attack. Now it comes to light that he was actually sent to Switzerland where he continued to 'serve' Maharaji in eurpoe right up until the Millenium festival in November of that year.

Interestingly, at the Millenium festival, Maharaji gave his last ever press conference. When a reporter tried to ask him about Fakiranand a premie helping to manage the press conference tried to cut her off (as an aside, this premie was the same one who actually was guarding Maharaji when he got the pie in his face, although nothing really turns on that). The reporters insisted on hearing the guru's answer so Maharaji, very sheepishly, muttered, more or less under his breath, that he was 'looking into it'. What he didn't say was that he was protecting Fakiranand, a would be murderer, in his cult in europe.

In truth, Maharaji looked into nothing of course. Thus, when a Newsweek reporter soon after complains that the guru's answers are flippant what he didn't know was that they were actually lies as well. Maharaji did all he could to stifle an inquiry into that ugly and potentially fatal incident. If you get a copy of the 'Lord of the Universe' video, you can actually watch your guru lie and squirm and then start whining about being asked all those pesky questions in the first place.

Would you like a copy? If so, please email me. I'm sure we can work out something:

jimheller@shaw.ca

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:38:19 (EST)
From: ChrisP
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: Re: I didn't know this site existed
Message:

That's okay, Jude. I'm not trying to convert anyone here. I'm perfectly happy for you and other pwk's to continue enjoying the practise of Knowledge. After all, I too, did have many nice experiences and good times in MJ's world. However, with what I know now, I could never go back. You can certainly think whatever you like about that.

On another thought, I guess I just have too much of an independent streak in me to ever make it in MJ's world. I don't see it as a failure either, really - I just finally decided it's not for me.

Cheers,

ChrisP

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:20:35 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: You're OBVIOUSLY knew
Message:

or you're a spin-doctor.

Either way, hold onto your hat.

deborah

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:20:28 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: David Roupell, you can't stop lying, can you??
Message:

You must think that we were born yesterday darling. It's the same IP# you used to post as Passing Through, SC, Cerise, Marolyn et al and now jude. Get a life, dude.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:57:24 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: David Roupell, you can't stop lying, can you?
Message:

Pat,

You've got that special ability to spot a troll. I just read 'jude's' post and thought, TROLL!

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 16:14:42 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Special ability??
Message:

Yes, Cynthia, it's being able to see peoples' IP#s and use Verisign Whois to trace them. :)

Actually I did the trace because I thought is may be a friend of mine called Jude who also uses a Mac. Surprise! It was dear Mr Roupell.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 15:01:24 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: jude
Subject: Jude, honey
Message:

Get it together, okay? You don't need to be so confronted by people talking about Maharaji. It is really okay to do it. That being said, my, aren't you just a tad judgmental, Jude? Perhaps you protest just a little too much? What are you afraid of? We are just people, Jude.

By the way, how many of the people who post here that you throw into such a negative category, do you actually know? Is it greater than zero?

I think you will find that people have moved on with their lives after rejecting Maharaji. I think the problem you have is not so much what people think about Maharaji, just that they talk about it, publicly. I think that's the thing that bothers you and you find 'ugly.' That's too bad.

Good luck Jude. Maybe you should just pretend you never saw this website it if upsets you so much.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:30:17 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Chris P
Subject: Psycho Boot camp
Message:

What a journey into the depths of the deplorable and depraved mind control tactics that the cult is using today sanctioned directly by m to jump start propagation. It is obvious from these first hand examples you provided us Chris of M's ridiculous sophmoric attemts to facilitate some sort of training methods that the cult is dying on the vine.

One thing is becomes certain for me in this illustration and that is propagation is all but over and cannot be resucitated through these bungling means.

Thanks Chris for the highlights , I concur with the others, this is a best of forum contribution.

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:08:33 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Chris P
Subject: Wow! thanks Chris P
Message:

Hi Crispy, (So crispy you SNAPPED huh?)

Thanks for that fascinating and informative post ( I don’t think I’ll need to watch a video!)
So they really did it: that truly beggars belief. I find it quite unbelievable that anybody, even the most devoted premie, can watch the Atlanta training without at least a few teensy misgivings.
Here’s a quote from it: “the Master says, yes this is ok to do, you may talk about knowledge, you may not talk about knowledge. Both have to be taken with the same stride.”
As you so rightly said, it’s insulting, deeply insulting, yet I also know premies who thought it was wonderful and inspiring “He made it all so clear.” Well he certainly made it clear to me, transparent in fact! It certainly seems to have precipitated the exit of quite a few of us from the cult, and was pretty much the final drip for me.
(Sorry to repeat myself here yet again, but if anyone wants to read some of it, I transcribed some passages which can be found on ‘best of forum’ Miragey’s recent diatribe’)

The version that I saw (and have been copying for other exes) was a satellite broadcast, which was obviously heavily edited, chopped to bits in fact, presumably cutting out the swear words, blue jokes and other material deemed unsuitable for ordinary premies. Was the KIT training a fuller version?

Crispy, you gave us a really good glimpse into the inner workings of the cult and also into the subtle programming that kept us stuck there for so long. Great post, definitely a ***BEST OF***
Thanks
Kelly

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:56:23 (EST)
From: Patsy
Email: None
To: Chris P
Subject: Thanks Crispy - excellent. [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 17:22:29 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Chris P
Subject: **BEST of FORUM*** a must read!
Message:

Chris,

Thanks for posting this again.

Best wishes to you,

Francesca

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:44:43 (EST)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Re: **BEST of FORUM*** YES!
Message:

Thank you for that Chris, there is nothing quite like a first-hand account. Thanks for sharing it with us.

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Date: Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 18:29:43 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Re: **BEST of FORUM*** a must read!
Message:

CQ, I vaguely emember this post. Thanks a lot. I didn't know you had a 'snapping' experience in this session. Could you tell by looking at anybody else that they were 'snapping' as well.

Can you tell me, as I have not yet seen the Atlantic Training Video, who else participated (especially but not exclusively on the PAM level).

cheers,

deborah

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Date: Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 22:34:38 (EST)
From: ChrisP
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: To Deborah
Message:

Hi Deborah,

You wrote:

'Could you tell by looking at anybody else that they were 'snapping' as well.'

- I couldn't tell from 'appearances', however they all (at least the ones I talked to) thought it was great and are all still hanging in there. One guy had actually already attended a previous KIT session in another city and recommended it be brought to our city as well. One person saw that I had 'unanswered questions' and said I could email any feedback I had to the group after. I did so but haven't received a single response.

What a thing, eh? Belief systems..... fiercely personal and sadly limiting. Either way, judging someone else's belief is utterly pointless. (I loved PatC's and Loaf's posts above on this.)

'Can you tell me ..... who else participated (especially but not exclusively on the PAM level)'

- I can't say much for the Atlanta session itself, but our own KIT's two facilitators were both visiting instructors: Booth Dyess (who had attended the Atlanta session and was trained to run the subsequent KIT sessions in various cities) and Marielle Comeau (regional instructor who assisted).

Cheers,

ChrisP
(not CQ, although ChrisP is my alias)
(another recent Canadian recent)

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Date: Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 13:29:56 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: ChrisP
Subject: ***BEST OF*** to ChrisP...
Message:

Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for reposting this. I think I missed the original.

Your description of snapping was exactly as I've read in the book of that title.

This term was coined by the authors, Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. They consider 'snapping' to be what happens at the point of entering a cult, as well as snapping out of a cult.

I'm glad you snapped. You got your mind and freedom of thought back.

Btw, I enjoy your posts very much.

Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Feb 03, 2002 at 23:15:19 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: ChrisP
Subject: Thanks ChrisP [nt]
Message:

[nt]

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